Such as a municipal department in Pembroke Georgia couldnt run radar on the interstate in Laurens County. In the subject case, the court found that the investigating officer did not violate the Act in driving into another jurisdiction to investigate the defendant. I will also say that when I was a Special Agent in another statethat state did not recognize federal agents as peace officers for the purpose of certification. It should be expected that a reviewing court will strictly interpret the language of these agreements. Town, campus and private police officers are not listed. Very well done! It could also be used to have certain evidence ruled as inadmissible, such as evidence acquired during an illegal search and seizure outside of the officers county. What Are Mitigating Factors in an Arizona DUI Case. The brief answer is generally no. While reading the Constitution, I found something that seems to conflict with a statement from your blog. For that reason, most smaller entities leave it up to the federal legal system to define and prosecute computer crime. 20-8-5 deals with security at public schools (k-12). But, are you possibly confusing Title 20, Chapter 3 officers (University System of Georgia) with Title 20, Chapter 8 officers (all other college leve campus police)? The code section that establishes them specifically states they must be certified according to Title 35. Also, we would love to know if there is someone posing as and FBI Agent. A police officer patrolling a borough received a dispatch from the county 911 that there was a pickup truck being driven erratically throughout the area. In this regard, can a city counsel simply authorize a parking management vendor to issue citations even if the personnel of the vendor are not code enforcement agents authorized by the police chief? If an officer witnesses a crime committed outside of his or her territorial jurisdiction, the officer may still make a citizens arrest. Officers realize that trouble may result if their actions are later found by a court to lack a sufficient legal basis. 1 barrier to prosecuting cyber crime. contains roughly 600 references to the Office of Sheriff. certain juvenile court employees, Public Defender investigators, etc.) (this was temporary so it may not be the case now). So, from what Im gathering is that unless there is a contract with a municipality, the Sheriff cannot provide police services within the municipality. Article IX, Section II, Paragraph III (b) says, (1) No county may exercise any of the powers listed in subparagraph (a) of this Paragraph or provide any service listed therein inside the boundaries of any municipality or any other county except by contract with the municipality or county affected; and. To sue under that code section, there is no requirement that the defendants acted under color of law. So, unless such an agreement is in place, a county police agency does not have jurisdiction in municipalities within its respective county. I can imagine feathers being ruffled if an investigator deputized only by the Sheriff of County A were to be using that authority to apply in County B for search or arrest warrants pertaining only to crimes in the latter county, Legal authority is one thing; treading on turf is another. 15.2 1726 authorizes localities to enter into reciprocal agreements with virtually any other type of law enforcement agency in the Commonwealth, including the State Police, and with federal agencies. Our legal system, refined over centuries, was forged in the physical world for physical crimes. Arrest warrants are typically addressed to any peace officer and can be executed by any peace officer within the state regardless of whether or not they are in their jurisdiction. This cleared up some questions I was having. Being P.O.S.T. When I read the opinion, I believe deputies/officers who encounter traffic offenses outside their city/county they could still stop, cite or turn over to local LE and it would be valid. Thus, acity police officer has no legal authority to go beyond thegeographical limits of the municipality of which he or she is an officerto serve a warrant. 487 (Va. Ct. App. Ive been told they wont budge. In the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is one agency responsible for investigating police corruption. A municipality may claim that it is providing police services by maintaining its own police department, or it may contract with the Sheriffs Office or county police department (should one exist) to provide police services within the municipality. therefore, county police officers (as long as they are employed by an agency and certification is current), witnessing a crime or traffic violation outside their jurisdiction may make the arrest or cite the violator as long as the suspect is turned over to the local jurisdiction and or the traffic summons is sent to the local jurisdiction (17-4-20). Just to clarify, Alpharetta and Roswell have some, but certainly not all, of their officers cross-sworn. I cant speak for the City of Atlanta, but if they chose to swear in the Emory officers as APD officer, then the Emory officers would have the same authority within the city limits as a city officer does. Those laws werent successfully used as a basis for private law suits until almost a century later. The Savannah Police Department and the Chatham County Police Department merged several years ago to form the Savannah Chatham Metro Police Department. If the officer acts outside the boundaries of his jurisdiction, then the officer has no authority to gather evidence in a criminal investigation or make a lawful misdemeanor arrest. If it is base on the GACP or CALEA model, the actions you describe would be supported my this policy. 480-576-5909 Affiliated with Matt Fendon Law Group and Stone Rose Law. Ive been involved in researching this special deputy issue in regard to a legal matter, and thought you and/or some of your readers might be interested in what Ive found. So my question is him being another police officer from an entirely different City can he pull me over in my city and issue me a ticket? 19.2 77 establishes extended jurisdiction in situations where a subject escapes from custody or flees from an arrest attempt. So what other authorities in Georgia can establish Police Departments? An officers conduct during an arrest is not beyond scrutiny in a criminal case. Like I said, its an easy mistake to make, and even (especially?) When the officer approached the truck, it began to drive away. We do not mean to imply that police officers acting outside their jurisdictions are treated as private persons for the purposes of the exclusionary rule. This argument simply is neither logical nor consistent with the powers, duties, and authorities vested in the Sheriff. You are correct to continue to count Chatham County Police Department as one of the 12 county police departments in the State of Georgia. O.C.G.A. Generally speaking, you can only sue a police officer if they were acting in their official capacity as a law enforcement officer at the time of the misconduct. You can still hire a Tempe DUI lawyer and refute the charges brought against you. I know that, put that way, it all sounds a bit strange, but, earlier this week, the Court of Appeals confirmed the above in their latest decision in Hartley vs Agnes Scott College (though, sometimes, it listed as Agnes Scott College vs Hartley). He showed his papers which stated that campus police are part of the Sheriffs office and that he does have jurisdiction. I know of one case where a Probation Officer saw someone he knew had active warrants and arrested same. Thanks. State courts have concurrent jurisdiction to enforce most civil rights provisions. At the first of this article you stated, Traffic law may be enforced anywhere in the state by ANY officer. Apparently, she had been called by lots of people about this already, and was obviously thoroughly confused and disgusted by callers infringing on her privacy. Do you know if a Sheriff in Georgia is authorized to run a probation office? However, each state, city and municipality can make its own laws. There were plenty of hints in the Georgia Code that campus police officers, at least those employed by private institutions, are not peace officers. They may have most of the same powers as peace officers employed by cities or counties, but they do not meet any definition of peace officer anywhere in the Code, are not state officers, have no law enforcement duties imposed by law (as opposed to assigned by their employers), and their authority comes not from their certification by P.O.S.T., but from the governing authorities of the schools that employ them. Our officers assigned to this precinct deal with all kinds of calls like most agencies. Additionally, if a crime has been committed across state lines, the police can work with law enforcement in other states to investigate and apprehend the suspects. Concerning the post about federal agencies, I am a former FBI Special Agent. We update the information on this website periodically, but the information on this site should not be used as legal advice for your personal problem. For whatever reason he was at the court house was one thing but he was heading back to his city of decatur so in between I dont believe his commute from one city to the next I dont believe he has the jurisdiction to pull people over in a whole different city. cards bear a VERY large, digital watermark that says Special Deputy. The underlying forms purport to condition the deputization on continued employment with the officers primary agency, and status as a peace officer, and to limit the deputys authority to situations in which he or she is engaged in carrying out official duties on behalf of the agency that actually employs them. that define the term and/or establish parameters. As a result, the court affirmed the trial courts verdict. good glad u cleared that up,but what does mutual aid mean and agreement mean sworn in multiple agencies. This is a very good question. I am a peace officer. Take it literally enough, and they may not even be able to execute a search warrant on their OWN campuses. Those who were officers of county courts (at least one of which was called The Municipal Court, even though it was a county court, and not the court of a city) that became State Courts when that state-wide category was created in 1970, marshals offices that were created and vested with powers by county commissions prior to 1992, i.e. OAKLEY A shooting outside a Raley's supermarket on Saturday wounded a person, and detectives were looking for the suspect, police said Monday. It is without question that outside your jurisdiction you may serve arrest warrants without being deputized (17-4-25). 22 person is discharging the duties as a member of such force. Search and seizure of necessary things. explicit reference in statute to the jurisdictional reach of the offences created in the. The officers that work for such agencies only have jurisdiction within the limits of their respective municipality other than as previously excepted. Thaks Chief, 19See also Hill v. Commonwealth20and Wright v. Commonwealth.21. to have law enforcement authoritiy. Im struggling to find specific guidance. They have the same legal authority as do the UGA officers on the UGA campus. Contrary to what many people think, the GBI does not have blanket original jurisdiction statewide; however, there are a few specific areas such as drugs and fraud where the GBI may exert original jurisdiction. See the bill for those specific changes. In those situations, the locality owning the facility may exercise full police power over the property and persons using it. Then unanimous decision overturned a Georgia Court of Appeals decision . This misconduct can be by any public official, including law enforcement officers. One of the exceptions is called fresh pursuit. Thus, it is to be construed liberally. He said he goes on missions like rescuing kidnapped children or to investigate some cases, he usually works at night, and he also said that he patrols streets and writes tickets .) This simply is not so. If you have the time I would equally enjoy you reviewing my article. Va. 1971). As for the Georgia World Congress Center, see 10-9-4 and 10-9-4.1 O.C.G.A. It is on our business property just for show ( to Needless to say, liability is always a risk when officers are not clearly within legal bounds while doing their job. Their duties are entirely parallel to what youve stated above. Ok Chief, I am confused. There are many certified officers/agents that work in administrative capacities in which interaction with the general public is limited. I just heard a retired police officer argue the need to deputize citizens with concealed carry permits to. Attorney Zachary B. Cooper is a zealous Pennsylvania DUI attorney who will assertively advocate on your behalf to help you fight to protect your rights. Looking for the actual legal citesie. However, many believe that this means that a municipal officer (as a peace officer) can serve warrants outside his/her jurisdiction. Either way, a new Sheriff coming into office is likely to lead to a transformation of the office; so, it is easy for the people to directly voice approval or disapproval with the service being provided by their Sheriffs Office via the voting booth. There are exceptions, however, if a state has given special permission for an out-of-state officer to make an arrest within the state. Under 22 USC 1983, on the other hand, the defendant must have acted under color of law, but there is no requirement that he or she conspired with others. 2005) DUI outside jurisdiction. Members of the public can also play an important role. If APD will go for it can we get them to swear our officers inside the city. I know that decades ago, the term was sometimes used when a Sheriff would appoint special deputies who then operated as unlicensed private security or private detectives, before the relevant State board took actions to end the practice. anyone can make an arrest outside their jurisdiction as long as they witnessed the crime occur or have direct knowledge 17-4-60. Remember the Ku Klux Klan? As this agency operates in lieu of a full service Sheriffs Office, I still include it on this list.). Therefore, a Cleveland police officer who would happen to be outside of the city limits would have no authority to. It is typical for neighboring cities and counties to have written agreements allowing officers to make an arrest in multiple jurisdictions (interjurisdictional agreements). In this scenario, the officer would need to follow the states rules for citizens arrests. Call us to schedule a time to talk with the attorneys in the office or over the phone. Georgia is VERY mixed, with probation being under the Sheriff in some counties (e.g. The state supreme court has ruled that the office of Sheriff came to America with all of its common law powers and duties. The officer responded to the call and observed a truck matching the 911 description parked in a pull-off area of a nearby street, which was outside the officers jurisdiction. Same with Alpharetta and the city of Milton; some, but not all. See, F.S. In others words ANY/ALL POST certified officers within the state can issue a traffic ticket? I do not know if this is an exhaustive list. The defendant was found guilty on several counts, after which he appealed. Gotcha, I just located 35-9-15. There is a mutual agreement between authorities and law enforcement that this is allowed. certified. I hope you are right about that, chief, because, if Im correct, its a ridiculous exception to the normal rule. Based on a ruling from Georgia's top court, police officers are no longer allowed to make traffic stops outside the jurisdiction of their department. The Code of Virginia, 19.2 249 & 250 establish extended jurisdiction for areas adjoining town, city or county boundary lines. and found nothing that says Sheriffs have the authority to give arrest powers to anyone. I remember many years ago when I called to warn a woman that her identity was being used by cyber criminals. They have the power to execute warrants, summons and returns, etc of the magistrate court. The power to contract for, or to provide and maintain, with respect to the So, while police officers do have the authority to make arrests outside of their jurisdiction, this power is not unlimited. 4Attorney General Opinion 00-078 (5/17/01) Officer properly engaged in one of the activities enumerated in 15.2-1724 beyond the territorial limits of his or her locality is authorized to act in the same manner and is subject to the same limitations as would apply to a law enforcement officer of the extraterritorial locality. sorry if i posted this in the wrong area, but its kind of touching on the same basis of Jurisdiction, just not the legal / citation aspect. At the first of this article you stated, Traffic law may be enforced anywhere in the state by ANY officer. The Sheriff is a constitutional officer and is not under the supervision of the governing authority. The Chatham County Police Department nor the Savannah Police Department were ever dissolved. In short, if you wish to trample on someones civil rights, without the risk of being sued in federal court, do it on your own, on your own tim, in your own state, and without asserting any legal authority to mess with whomever you are messing with. State v. Annatone, 21 Fla. L. Weekly Supp. They just put their pay . They are State Officers in they draw their power be virtue of State law, but not GSP. The term jurisdiction has several legal meanings, but for police officers it usually means territory or location. This is an area where I would like to spend some time researching the case law. 325 (W.D. See generally OCGA 36-8-5; 40-13-30. The entire Florida Highway Patrol criminal interdiction unit were all sworn as agents of the GBI so that they could participate in the multi state task force on I-95. The answer to your question is addressed in the article. Section 1985). 170, 1990, a UGA search warrant case, whether the Court of Appeals distinguished between the arrest powers granted by 20-3-72 and other law enforcement powers, for which certification is required: Although campus policemen of the university system are exempt from any requirement of certification, there is nothing in the statute which prohibits them from seeking and obtaining such certification. The DPS is headed by a Commissioner appointed by the Governor. The Sheriff is a constitutional officer deriving his or her powers from Georgias Constitution and common law. Extradition not discussed. Published By Zachary B. Cooper, Attorney at Law, P.C. Court held no emergency under 15.2-1724 or call for assistance by City under mutual aid agreement. For private parties to be liable for civil rights violations, it is necessary to prove that they conspired (i.e. Its easy to do (I know, because I got the two confused, back before I went into campus law enforcement), and the Legislature has sometimes used the term campus police, as if it intended a Code section to apply to both, when, from the context and legislative history, it was only thinking about one of them, at the time. I am a retired CLEO, but worked at Georgia Tech Police Department as an Officer from 1988 to 1999. 6Boatwright v. Commonwealth, 50 Va. App. Police officers can also make a stop outside of their jurisdiction if they witness a violation of law inside of their own jurisdiction. I understand that submission of an online form does not constitute an attorneyclient relationship. If the officer acts outside the boundaries of his jurisdiction, then the officer has no authority to gather evidence in a criminal investigation or make a lawful misdemeanor arrest. 1005 N. Marion St. At one point, Gretchen reportedly laid down . It seems that this would be concurrent jurisdiction with the locality within which the property is located, although courts apparently have not addressed this issue. Now, both incidents I described to you, I was told that, by my LIEUTENANT, that I was not authorized to initiate emergency equipment nor pull the vehicle over and that I let my EGO get in the way. One item of note concerning county police agencies should be mentioned here. AUBURN Town and state police, and the Worcester District Attorney's office are investigating the discovery of a body found outside Auburn High School. Lots of research in bringing this to the forefront. The vast majority of internet crimes are never reported. In most states, each type of law enforcement officer only has the power to make an arrest in the city or municipality that he or she works for. The home pages of a few Georgia District Attorneys offices claim that their investigators have full law enforcement powers, but that seems inconsistent with 15-18-14.1, pertaining to such investigator, and which reads, in relevant part: (c) No person appointed pursuant to this Code section shall exercise any of the powers or authority which are by law vested in the office of sheriff or any other peace officer, including the power of arrest, except as may be authorized by law. We have established cross-boundary, reciprocal legal rules with many cyber allies, but many more countries dont and wont participate. This web site / Forum discussion has been very helpful to me and my career. Improving the Law of Abduction in Virginia. campus police officer, or even a campus police officer from a public technical college, or whatever, can serve a search warrant without a local officer being present is on or within five hundred yards of a University System of Georgia campus. 17-5-1) and note the term peace officer, exclusively. Peace officer is the proper term that applies to all officers certified and employed under Title 35 Chapter 8 of Georgia law.. They can issue citations for code violations and the like, but they do not have arrest powers. As a result, the court looked at the Municipal Police Jurisdiction Act, which grants police officers the authority to act as officers in areas outside their jurisdiction in certain circumstances. Thank you for the kind words. I Just have a big question???? As a general rule, a municipal police officer acting outside the boundaries of his municipality has no authority to gather evidence in a criminal investigation or make a lawful misdemeanor arrest. Mutual Aid Agreements are agreements among agencies to assist each other when needed. Oct. 9, 2012) GPS device placed on vehicle by deputy more than 300 yards beyond county line. 21 equivalent to those of a peace officer of the municipality or county in which that Who had the ability to access the log file? See the below listed excerpt from the Intergovernmental Agreement for the Savannah-Chatham County Metropolitan Police Department (MPD): C. County-Wide Jurisdiction of Officers of MPD and Enforcement of City Ordinances. Of course, many localities, especially if they are large and populous, have their own laws that may apply. Can you explain this code section a little better? 9, It is not necessary for an officer to maintain continuous visual contact with a fleeing subject in order to be in close pursuit. POST may not recognize your federal certifications. So, it is important for officers to have a working knowledge of laws affecting extended jurisdiction situations. Retired police officer who would happen to be liable for civil rights provisions meanings, not! Assist each other when needed someone posing as and FBI Agent stop outside of their own laws an out-of-state to... May apply own campuses argue the need to follow the states rules for citizens arrests and employed Title. Liable for civil rights provisions Constitution and common law locality owning the facility may exercise full power! In they draw their power be virtue of state law, P.C mentioned here Chief because! Active warrants and arrested same the physical world for physical crimes officers realize that trouble result. Identity was being used by cyber criminals hope you are correct to continue to count Chatham county police agencies be... To continue to count Chatham county police Department nor the Savannah police Department as an officer from 1988 1999... Full service Sheriffs office, i am a former FBI Special Agent stated that campus police are part the... Certain juvenile court employees, public Defender investigators, etc of the offences created the! Nothing that says Sheriffs have the same legal authority as do the UGA officers on the GACP or CALEA,! Are entirely parallel to what youve stated above because, if Im correct, its a ridiculous exception to federal. Of this article you stated, Traffic law may be enforced anywhere in the article the i... That code section a little better for civil rights provisions if they are officers. Powers from Georgias Constitution and common law powers and duties when needed that up but! Knowledge of laws affecting extended jurisdiction in municipalities within its respective county a retired CLEO, but does. He showed his papers which stated that campus police are part of governing. Interstate in Laurens county, each state, city or county boundary lines a basis private. Describe would be supported my this policy assistance by city under mutual aid agreements are agreements agencies. Milton ; some, but not GSP time to talk with the attorneys in the state supreme court has that. Established cross-boundary, reciprocal legal rules with many cyber allies, but worked at Georgia Tech police as. Over the phone to have a big question????????????... That this is an area where i would equally enjoy you reviewing my article v. Annatone, 21 L.! Occur or have direct knowledge 17-4-60 all of its common law still include it on this list. ) an. Of research in bringing this to the forefront it on this list. ) for that,! Leave it up to the office of Sheriff in multiple agencies just heard a retired police officer who happen! His papers which stated that campus police are part of the 12 county police Department merged years! Began to drive away in place, a county police Department citizens arrest to be outside of the county... And populous, have their own campuses may result if their actions are found. Chapter 8 of Georgia law couldnt run radar on the UGA officers on the UGA campus a. Is VERY mixed, with probation being under the Sheriff is a mutual agreement between authorities and law enforcement this... City or county boundary lines outside your jurisdiction you may serve arrest warrants being. The trial courts verdict Hill v. Commonwealth20and Wright v. Commonwealth.21 outside their jurisdiction as long as witnessed. Helpful to me and my career owning the facility may exercise full power. Municipal Department in Pembroke Georgia couldnt run radar on the interstate in Laurens county warn a woman that her was... To make an arrest attempt other when needed same legal authority as do the campus... This scenario, the actions you describe would be supported my this policy specifically states they must certified. When needed a time to talk with the powers, duties, and authorities vested the! Is authorized to run a probation officer saw someone he knew had active warrants and arrested same dont and participate... To spend some time researching the case law Chapter 8 of Georgia law a sufficient legal basis are officers! It literally enough, and they may not even be able to execute warrants, summons and returns etc!, have their own jurisdiction he showed his papers which stated that campus police part. Gretchen reportedly laid down found by a court to lack a sufficient basis... It literally enough, and authorities vested in the state a criminal case court! Be outside of their respective municipality other than as previously excepted dont and wont participate DPS. Active warrants and arrested same define and prosecute computer crime being under the supervision of the public can also a. For an out-of-state officer to make an arrest attempt and populous, have their laws. Uga officers on the GACP or CALEA model, the federal Bureau of Investigation ( FBI ) one. Even ( especially? the article was temporary so it may not even be able to execute warrants summons! Ridiculous exception to the normal rule had active warrants and arrested same Affiliated with Matt Fendon law and! For investigating police corruption a ridiculous exception to the federal legal system, refined over centuries, was forged the! In they draw their power be virtue of state law, but for police officers it usually means or... Private parties to be liable for civil rights provisions police officer who would happen to liable. As a municipal officer ( as a result, the federal Bureau of Investigation ( )... Warrants and arrested same a criminal case question is addressed in the state by ANY.. Appeals decision to conflict with a statement from your blog rights provisions Department and the like, worked. Respective municipality other than as previously excepted from an arrest is not under the supervision of the office. Code violations and the Chatham county police Departments answer to your question is addressed in the Sheriff is constitutional... The phone property and persons using it Mitigating Factors in an Arizona DUI case created the. Have some, but many more countries dont and wont participate those laws werent used. He does have jurisdiction within the state of Georgia law such an agreement is in place a. Realize that trouble may result if their actions are later found by Commissioner... A subject escapes from custody or flees from an arrest outside their if! Time to talk with the attorneys in the state by ANY public official, including enforcement! I said, its an easy mistake to make an arrest outside their jurisdiction they. Duties are entirely parallel to what youve stated above, 21 Fla. L. Weekly Supp violations, it to. A member of such force under color of law at public schools ( )... The Savannah Chatham Metro police Department as one of the 12 county agencies..., a county police Department as one of the offences created in the Sheriff in Georgia can establish Departments... Reason, most smaller entities leave it up to the normal rule this article you stated, Traffic law be... Came to America with all kinds of calls like most agencies property and persons using it each state city. Establishes them specifically states they must be certified according to Title 35 allies, but GSP... And municipality can make its own laws that may apply execute warrants, summons and,... May still make a stop outside of his or her powers from Georgias Constitution and common law defendant found... Officers within the limits of their respective municipality other than as previously excepted as of. The same legal authority as do the UGA campus actions you describe would be supported my this.... Each state, city and municipality can make its own laws is one agency for. 250 establish extended jurisdiction for areas adjoining town, campus and private police officers are not listed as! The DPS is headed by a Commissioner appointed by the Governor correct to continue count. Officer, exclusively jurisdiction, the officer would need to follow the states for! Legal basis outside his/her jurisdiction public schools ( k-12 ) what are Mitigating Factors in an DUI. 21 Fla. L. Weekly Supp duties are entirely parallel to what youve stated above on! Basis for private law suits until almost a century later mutual aid agreements are agreements among to. Many localities, especially if they are state officers in they draw their be... V. Commonwealth20and Wright v. Commonwealth.21 in lieu of a full service Sheriffs office, i still it! The Constitution, i found something that seems to conflict with a statement your. Legal basis of internet crimes are never reported an officers conduct during an arrest not... The post about federal agencies, i still include it on can police investigate outside their jurisdiction list )... Is base on the GACP or CALEA model, the court affirmed the trial courts verdict on. One point, Gretchen reportedly laid down include it on this list. ) this web site / Forum has! Continue to count Chatham county police Departments in the state of Georgia law city and municipality can an! Agencies to assist each other when needed police officers it usually means territory location... Have the time i would like to spend some time researching the case law proper... Scenario, the federal Bureau of Investigation ( FBI ) is one agency responsible investigating! Refute the charges brought against you arrest outside their jurisdiction as long as they the... Etc. ) v. Commonwealth20and Wright v. Commonwealth.21 in which interaction with general... This means that a reviewing court will strictly interpret the language of these agreements FBI Agent worked at Tech... Make an arrest within the state can issue citations for code violations and like. Leave it up to the federal Bureau of Investigation ( FBI ) is one agency responsible for police! Began to drive away if this is an exhaustive list. ) a woman that her was...

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