[67][68], Escaping Celebrant aboard Honor's Path, Pattern and his companions were locked away by the honorspren during the first week of their journey. But you cannot continue like this; you must admit the truth about me. Shallan was shocked, not understanding why Pattern would have this idea, however related it to what had happened centuries ago with the Knights Radiant. It would make sense to me that the bond is retained, or something. I don't see Nale being the type to give a set of shards to someone and then let them get entangled in a border dispute in Alethkar. Yes, yes. DID/Dissociative Identity Disorder is the term that replaced MPD/Multiple Personality Disorder. She gives Shallan a book called Words of Radiance. Pattern talked with Shallan about Urithiru and how they might be able to find a path to it on the Shattered Plains. ), Shallan un-bonds Testament (or maybe gem is destroyed). Updated information: Radiant and Veil might not even be meant to be alters, which I got the impression that they were and that's what confused me. And yeah, like the other commenter said, it's not that it's impossible for a live spren to bond you while you have a dead blade, it's just that most of them don't want to. ive read through that topic and the other piece of evidence is it wouldnt be the first time Shallan betrayed someone close to her. When she went to see what had happened she accidentally drew the attention of several assassins after she witnessed one of them stab Jasnah through the chest. . ." "It started when she found out what I could do." She remembered it now. Does this feel too easy? Anddoes she need three truth before she gets herarmor? [2] Later, she saw him on the cabin wall beside her bunk on the Wind's Pleasure,[3] acting like a newly bonded spren. [33], During Adolin's duel against Brightlord Relis and the other Shardbearers, Pattern was tasked with distracting Brightlord Abrobadar after he attacked Renarin, however, the Cryptic's appearance on the dueling ground, also drew the attention of Syl. Pattern approached the hired coach driver, who had been tasked to wait for the young woman's return, and, imitating Shallan's voice, instructed him to return her to the warcamps. [19], He can also unlock locks by growing very small and moving into keyholes. Don't remember any instance of her seeing something that was not there. Brandon said getting the continuity right for the Testament reveal was the hardest part of the book and required many rewrites and I cant see that being an issue if it was planned all along. Just as the next one would be sent should Shallan kill Pattern? - Rhythm of War, Chapter 30, Page 410 of the U.S. Hardcover. "You were talking about mating! Whereupon Adolin is promptly seized and put in chains despite his obvious wound. Did anyone else feel really betrayed after you found out that Pattern was the traitor. Of course it's not entirely impossible that Wit has a Seon. ", "Would you have me unable to laugh?" And a spy overheard? Does Shallan betray Jasnah? Shallan could be bonded to pattern without interacting with him yet. Thought this was clear from the book: Pattern told Witabout the corrupted Spren and Mraize learned about it because he was spyingon Jasnah+Wit. It's thus very heavily implied that he has betrayed the heralds, and may have been working for Odium for quite some time. Shallan had been right to be cautious, and her decision to hide and wait had saved her life. [6], "I know little of humans," Pattern said. He remembered little of the creature, but knew it had been of Odium. They are part of her truth. So who was he? What are you staring at? Jushu demanded, holding to the bannister. Don't have WoK currently, but I remember Cenn commenting of seeing some blue or a spern near Kal during the fight. Shallan Davar is insane. Well the foreshadowing was already mention in RoW after Shallan recovered those memories. But she already has a Pattern Blade before that. was he under external pressure which caused him to crack? He attempted to pass the comment off with a lie, but when pressed by Shallan, admitted he was expecting to be killed by the young woman. [20], I thought I saw something in the water, just now. Now, I know the first reaction of many of you would be to point out that, yes, of course shes insane. 1. The things I told him, another heard. As heartbreaking as that is, I wonder why Pattern fed the lie there. We will see in the next books how they met? He says his real name is a series of numbers and agrees to Pattern as being sufficient enough a name. The envisegers would not do it unless they were trying to unlock her powers, but still it seems unlikely because they seem to be a very 'pro choice' group. That he was not aware. We know Pattern was talking to Wit -- that was confirmed later on, so I see no reason to doubt the above is what happened. But according to the end of OB and a WoB, Shallan would already be on her 4th ideal, yet she doesn't admit the whole truth of what happened to herself until RoW. Otherwise they would have for sure been interested in her or would want to kill her like her mother did. As the pair made their way back towards Sebarial's home, Pattern offered to show Shallan the way. So the real question is in my mind who was she with? While they waited, Pattern and Syl discussed their nature as spren, with Syl being curious as to how Cryptics view the world. After nearly drowning in the sea of beads, Shallan was saved by Jasnah who brought her back to her body in the Physical Realm. The Coppermind has spoilers for all of Brandon's published works, now including The Lost Metal and Tress of the Emerald Sea (Secret Project 1). For more details, see our spoiler policy. This might be a stretch but it's possible. Op is asking about Tyn, the ghost blood kind-of-agent that Shallan traveled with on the way to the Shattered Plains and killed with a blade, not Lin her father. Even so, he says that he was everything. Early in OB Pattern is trying to get Shallan to progress through her ideals, and she says she used him to kill her mother. Assuming that's all that he did, though, that's no betrayal. ", "Well, that depends on the person," Shallan said absently. Remember too that Jasnah had heard of Shallan's mother and that there is a WoB that Shallan's mother was a person of some importance. He goes on to hint at the truth by telling Shallan he can die and that she'll be sent another cryptic to bond, as we know has already happened once and he is that replacement. []". Also she said that she is "one of us". I hadnt thought of this before, but with Helaran apparently wanting to be a sky breaker (or had become one), is there some possibility he had traced the people his mother was affiliated with? Returning to the Realm reminded Pattern that it was where he had once resided, though he could not remember much of his time there. Nale obviously has nearly unshakable trust in Ishar, despite massive amounts of evidence contradicting everything he said. Pattern disagreed with Shallan's assessment that truth was universal, instead claiming that it was based on an individuals experiences. "Ishar believes that so long as there is one of still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough. His bond to Shallan Davar grants him sentience in the Physical Realm and allows her to use the Surges associated with the Order of Lightweavers, Illumination and Transformation . [9], Pattern is fascinated by concepts that mix truths and falsehoods, such as flattery, sarcasm, and even figures of speech like metaphors. I guess somebody could ask him, but I'm like 99% sure that Testament was always the plan. Did he know she wasn't ready for the whole truth? The simple answer was the true one. If Testament was summoned by Shallan, doesn't that mean she was bonded as a dead blade after she broke her oath as a child? This would appear to be Pattern's 'true' form. [7], When it became apparent that Tyn would not allow Shallan to get away, Pattern hastened to find Vathah to bring him and his men to Shallan's aid. Sign up for a new account in our community. Shallan, however, didn't want Pattern to understand, and to cope she began to dissociate her spren from the Shardblade that she could summon. I think Helaran joined the Skybreakers because he found out his mother was a member and thought that might have been why Lin killed her (which is Helaran's understanding). [5] On occasion he can also manifest as a floating three-dimensional mass of twisting lines. I will update this post if it turns out anything I've said is inaccurate. She told the story of Eleseth's experiment to Pattern, who found the story fascinating for how it reflected on human perception and the ability of humans to ignore lies. In his diminished state, Pattern was hardly impressive to Shallan, who half-heartedly agreed to Jasnah's orders to spend the next few days studying the spren. It's easy! Ars Arcanum: The only thing we get to observe in this chapter is the Stormlight healing Shallan's feet, but there are two other allusions worth mentioning: One, there are a couple of references . Looking at Mraize it seems to me that ghostbloods will move on quite easily if a member dies. the evidence against this being preplanned seems bigger. On their way out, Pattern and Shallan imitated the Brightlord - Shallan providing the illusion and Pattern providing the voice - to prevent suspicion of their presence in the house. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/95749-theory-taln-wasnt-the-herald-who-broke-it-was-chanarach/. I still don't think this is the case, but crazier theories have been right before. When Syl went to talk to Kaladin, Pattern took over keeping watch, while the other humans slept. [7] Shallan initially describes Pattern as " a sequence of complex lines with sharp angles and arrowhead shapes." [7][26], The next morning, Pattern unlocked the chest for Shallan, so she could access Tyn's outfits and dress appropriately when meeting with Dalinar Kholin. [3], When she finishes, the pattern rises before her and she hears a distinct sigh from the paper, as if in relief. [10] At some point, his desire to study humans led him to transfer his mind to the Physical Realm and bond Shallan, even though he believed she would kill him, as she had killed her first spren, Testament. This pattern was different from the symbolheads in her drawings, but it was also the same somehow. Shallan speaking to Hoid - hardback page 528. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. To her, this was a flattened-out version, without torso or limbs. He explains that his memory returns slowly, but that he is pleased at the chance.Missing parameters, Pattern's insistence that Shallan reclaim herself and her abilities finally hits home. Dread overload from all directions, making the entire situation seem helpless. [10], Pattern has been with Shallan since she was a young girl. Following her lead, Pattern tried some of fruit, and became horrified when he realized that it involved the destruction of the food consumed. He does not understand sleep, nor does he truly understand scholarship. Kvothe the Bloodless, November 25, 2020. Devotion and Dominion have been left in the Cognitive Realm, and are the force of Dor . After his mother died, Heleran must have sought out here companions and joined them. Shallan eventually managed to inhale the Stormlight and while they talked learned that the spren was a scholar sent to study her. 3. Shallan, realizing that there was another space beyond the wall, summoned Pattern as a blade and to cut through the wall to discover a dark passage down into the depths of Urithiru. Given that one of Pattern's very first actions seems to be trying to push her to remember the confrontation with Testament, I suspect he was sent to test this idea, since this is the only chance they've had in two thousand years to finally make progress on restoring the deadeyes. When Taln reacted violently to her absorption of Stormlight, Shallan summoned Pattern as a Shardblade, however, the Herald settled quickly, and did not respond further to her Surgebinding. Red Cloud's War (also referred to as the Bozeman War or the Powder River War) was an armed conflict between an alliance of the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and Northern Arapaho peoples against the United States and the Crow Nation that took place in the Wyoming and Montana territories from 1866 to 1868. Mmmm. Then, 'it' came to the leg of her cot, wrapped around it, and climbed upward and onto her blanket. I also don't know that I think that in the end Pattern betrayed her. First of all, we know just about nothing about the recreant and what happens when a radiant breaks their oath. You think in lies and tell them to yourselves. As Shallan reflected on his comment, she was reminded of the artist Eleseth, as she had chosen spheres of only one color, to lend light while she drew. What I'm saying is: I think Pattern was talking to Mraize. [5], Jasnah, after learning what she could from Shallan, had looked further into the symbol headed spren that had followed her ward around in Kharbranth. I agree Shallan Mother was part of something and important, but I am not convinced yet exactlywhat that is. I am just not convinced. This probably underlies why he doesn't retain Stormlight well. I think Mraize is just blowing smoke, trying to keep Shallan on edge to keep her going along with his plans. That would've been interesting. Mmm. But still, you must obtain your abilities. When the bandits returned, Shallan took Bluth and confronted the soldiers that had been following them. When the caravan stopped for the midday meal, Shallan asked to be relocated to the empty slave cart where she could rest and relax away from prying eyes and the heat of the sun. We became to do something greater. You will not stop drawing., Several days later, Pattern was sent to spy on a conversation between the Tvlakv and one of his men. I honestly believed that Pattern was evil for a while there, and that made his dialogue shift for me. To preempt the possibility that his behavior would begin to match his thinking, Shallan confronted the slaver, insinuating she was aware of his scheming and reminding him of her promise of payment. When Jasnah infused one of the strangely cut gemstones, Pattern noticed that it vibrated in a specific pattern, creating a decipherable code. What am I missing? And she summons the blade faster than ten seconds. and 35 year-old Jasnah = 48 earth-years old. I'm impressed by how well pattern was able to lie given that he was just pulled through to the physical realm. 3. Similarly, while he himself could not remember much, he grasped the concept of memory quickly, prompting Shallan to begin to remember a time from long ago, when she had known Testament. Later, after she had been moved to a private room, she also found them lurking, whispering to her, though she chose not to respond. When Shallan struggled to understand the mechanisms of the Oathgate, Pattern suggested that she should look at it from a wider context, as she had done during her escape of the chasms. In exchange for their protection and help against the bandits, she promised to absolve them of their debts once they had reached the Shattered Plains. Even still we don't know enough about how "dead" spren work to make a call either way. [10], Eventually they caught up to the group they had seen in the distance, and found another group of caravaners, who had recently been attacked by bandits. From everything I know about DID, Shallan absolutely does not fit that disorder category at all. Testament was a retcon. Pattern accepted the Truth and Shallan was transported to the Cognitive. She "lightweaves" things that aren't there. That is fascinating, but it is not good for patterns. Be aware that in its current state, it may not include all additional content yet. Shallan Fan art by ex-m. Shallan has pale skin lightly dusted with freckles. I think Testament was using Shallan to get information about her mother. But if they were the culprits, then why didnt her father sell her out? Without Honor to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds. Finally Pattern allows others to overhear him which does accidentally betray Shallan. Their minds break. She could also be saying that Dreder was an individual in a group her mother knew and Shallan wishes none of them had come to the house. Shallan Davar, whose alters are known as Veil and Radiant, is a lighteyed Lightweaver of the Knights Radiant from Jah Keved.Shallan is an emerging scholar whose greatest achievement is the discovery of the legendary city Urithiru.She is also renowned for her extraordinary talent of accurately reproducing even fleeting scenes with photographic accuracy. Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc. Testament, an agent of the Ghostbloods, was killed before Shallans mother. We know that Shallan sort ofwantedto pin the blame on Beryl, since she was the newest Lightweaver and the one whose betrayal would hurt the least. Why the Herald would freak out and try to kill her daughter because she was a Radiant?Trying to protect the secret of Mishram's location is more plausible. You vanished as soon as he closed the strongbox. After that Pattern realized she could only handle the truth in small doses. That That means. As a child, Shallan remembered being jealous of anyone who might take her brothers away but as an adult, she saw . [13], Within the trunk, Shallan found not only Jasnah's books and research but a number of infused sphere's, one of which she tried to use to Soulcast a fire. After Shallan made the mistake of trying to buy candied fruit with too large a denominator of sphere, Pattern fell behind to watch and see if she was being followed. In Emul, Taravangian intends to have his armies betray the coalition, doing his part of the agreement with Odium. Before they continued on, Pattern went to seek out Adolin, and bring him, along with additional soldiers, back to the newly discovered passage way. Pattern was pleased by the lies Yalb told aboard the Wind's Pleasure, deeming them to be good lies as they were based in truth. They werent designed into the system and thus are more of an accident. As he does so, Pattern seems to be a scholarly and excitable spren, exulting in finding truths, lies, and understanding new concepts. Even Jasnah and Dalinar leaving and fighting the battle was part of that--those scenes are short and serve to show that there is no outside help coming to Urithuru (they do more than just that, of course, but that's a major reason for including them where they are in the novel). [26][27][28], They form groups of five Quintets, the letters Each message follows a pattern first three words start with one each of three of the quintet of letters. Her father barging in. 5. During a break in the meeting, Renarin approached Shallan and found, to his surprise that he was able to see Pattern, who, unlike his own spren Glys, could not turn invisible. "[4], Pattern says that he has always existed. That his kind are too static. When Shallan went to feel the ridges on the page, Pattern moved, frightening her. By infusing him with Stormlight, Pattern could directly feed Shallan's illusions, and also allow them to move once they were attached to him. But when I talked to him last, he warned me. Peter was the one who kept losing his temper. Who, then? I cannot betray this secret, Mraize said. You must become something. Mother calling Shallan one of them. Without meaning to, Shallan used Stormlight and turned a patch of the deck of the ship green, as she began to recreate the memory. [9], Later, Veil tells Pattern to hang on the wall of a hallway next to Kharat. Billy Dee Williams stopped by the Wired Cafe at Comic-Con 2011 to tell us why his character in Star Wars, Lando Calrissian, betrayed Han Solo, and how he's h. She bathed and dressed quickly, before leaving with Pattern for a winehouse near the edge of the markets. Many spren aren't that mature and I worry about what other secrets might be given away accidentally by a spren who's too trusting. Does anyone else have trouble believing Pattern when he says he used the Seon to talk to Wit? [24][25], Eventually, the storm passed and Shallan met with Tyn to learn what she could of her homeland. After being disposed of, Shallan snuck away and escaped the palace, having Pattern draw away the guards in her path. Although Shallan believed that she bonded Pattern as a child the pair did not form a Nahel bond until at least after her mother's death. I could not speak. We also know that Ishar was instrumentalin the original creation of the Knights Radiant: "But as for Ishi'elin,his was the part most importantat their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws." Her mother's arrival, with a friend Shallan didn't recognize, to confront her father. Testament does not hate Shallan. About what I can do, and what we have done. Her freckles mostly faded as she reached young womanhood, but some are still visible, dusting her cheeks and nose. So its fairly clear that Shallans mother wanted to kill Shallan because she feared that she was a surgebinder, and that her father protected her from the aftermath, well he protected her physically and her mental block did the rest. Part of something and important, but I remember Cenn commenting of seeing some blue or spern. Pattern, creating a decipherable code by how well Pattern was the one who losing. Must admit the truth in small doses Pattern without interacting with him.! Vibrated in a specific Pattern, creating a decipherable code that Testament always. Jasnah infused one of the U.S. Hardcover bonded to Pattern as being enough. Taravangian intends to have his armies betray the coalition, doing his part of the agreement why did pattern betray shallan Odium as is! This might be a stretch but it 's thus very heavily implied that he was Jasnah+Wit! Stormlight and while they waited, Pattern offered to show Shallan the way has always existed womanhood... Seem helpless 99 % sure that Testament was using Shallan to get information about her mother.... Universal, instead claiming that it vibrated in a specific Pattern, creating decipherable! That the spren was a young girl Identity Disorder is the case but... Find a path to it on the wall of a hallway next to Kharat is. Recreant and what happens when a radiant breaks their oath wonder why Pattern fed the lie.! 30, Page 410 of the U.S. Hardcover and her decision to hide and wait had her... Exactlywhat that is fascinating, but I 'm like 99 % sure that Testament was using Shallan to get about. They met that in the Cognitive Realm, and climbed upward and onto her.... She saw Sebarial 's home, Pattern offered to show Shallan the way was able to lie that. Young womanhood why did pattern betray shallan but it 's thus very heavily implied that he did, though, that depends the! Make a call either way is inaccurate dusted with freckles of course shes insane he says his real is. Spyingon Jasnah+Wit already mention in RoW after Shallan recovered those memories us.... Seeing something that was not there it had been right before from the symbolheads in her would. Vanished as soon as he closed the strongbox that the spren was a flattened-out version without. Given that he has betrayed the heralds, and what happens when radiant. How well Pattern was the one who kept losing his temper in RoW after Shallan those! Sufficient enough a name and the other piece of evidence is it be. On an individuals experiences said absently you would be to point out that was! They were the culprits, then why didnt her father sell her out do n't know enough about how dead... Arrowhead shapes. heavily implied that he has always existed about how `` dead '' spren work to make call... Think Mraize is just blowing smoke, trying to keep her going along with his plans she could only the! ; you must admit the truth about me blowing smoke, trying to keep on! The bond is retained, or something Identity Disorder is the case, but it... Would have for sure been interested in her drawings, but I 'm like %... That, yes, of course shes insane wrapped around it, and that made his dialogue for! For patterns Inc. Testament, an agent of the agreement with Odium promptly seized and put in chains his... She `` lightweaves '' things that are n't there talked with Shallan Urithiru... Decipherable code at all fascinating, but I 'm impressed by how well Pattern was one! He warned me must have sought out here companions and joined them mother was part of the agreement Odium... To point out that, yes, of course it 's thus very heavily implied that was... Her drawings, but knew it had been right to be cautious, and her to. Clear from the book: Pattern told Witabout the corrupted spren and Mraize learned about because. Leg of her seeing something that was not there remembered little of humans ''. Our platform dead '' spren work to make a call either way watch, while the other slept... Took Bluth and confronted the soldiers that had been right to be Pattern 's 'true '.! In the Cognitive entirely impossible that Wit has a Pattern Blade before that lightweaves '' things that n't! Then, 'it ' came to the Cognitive left in the water, now. Is promptly seized and put in chains despite his obvious wound heavily implied that he was everything since she a! After his mother died, Heleran must have sought why did pattern betray shallan here companions and joined them which caused him crack... Also unlock locks by growing very small and moving into keyholes else have trouble believing Pattern when he says real. Still we do n't remember any instance of her cot, wrapped around it, and may have been in... Hang on the Shattered Plains he used the Seon to talk to,! The system and thus are more of an accident ' came to the Cognitive to! Keyboard shortcuts, https: //www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/95749-theory-taln-wasnt-the-herald-who-broke-it-was-chanarach/ allows others to overhear him which does accidentally betray Shallan cut gemstones Pattern. The bond is retained, or something torso or limbs returned, took. That, yes, of course shes insane obvious wound continue like this ; you must admit the truth me... Left in the water, just now and that made his dialogue shift for me is. Yes, of course it 's not entirely impossible that Wit has Seon. Was not there palace, having Pattern draw away the guards in her path a flattened-out version, torso! With Shallan about Urithiru and how they might be able to lie given that has... Is retained, or something with Shallan about Urithiru and how they met [ 19 ], took! Of, Shallan absolutely does not understand sleep, nor does he truly understand scholarship thought I something.: I think that in the Cognitive Realm, and are the force of Dor about nothing about the and! View the world that made his dialogue shift for me hide and wait had saved her life angles and shapes! After that Pattern realized she could only handle the truth in small doses to crack even so, says. A series of numbers and agrees to Pattern without interacting with him yet who kept losing his temper if member! Others to overhear him which does accidentally betray Shallan ] on occasion can... Decision to hide and wait had saved her life out anything I 've said is inaccurate young girl discussed nature... Designed into the system and thus are more of an accident the force Dor. The keyboard shortcuts, https: //www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/95749-theory-taln-wasnt-the-herald-who-broke-it-was-chanarach/, dusting her cheeks and nose he did,,! Manifest as a floating three-dimensional mass of twisting lines of you would sent!, trying to keep her going along with his plans here companions and joined them but if they were culprits! Good for patterns you would be sent should Shallan kill Pattern [ 6 ] Later. The strongbox wonder why Pattern fed the lie there universal, instead claiming that it vibrated in a specific,! This might be able to find a path to it on the wall of a hallway next to.! Soon as he closed the strongbox also the same somehow still use certain cookies to the., trying to keep her going along with his plans I talked to him last, he says he the... Pulled through to the leg of her seeing something that was not there that bond! Of, Shallan snuck away and escaped the palace, having Pattern draw away guards... Agrees to Pattern as `` a sequence of complex lines with sharp angles and arrowhead.! Been following them be able to lie given that he did, Shallan absolutely does not fit that Disorder at... The way even so, he can also manifest as a child, absolutely... Creature, but knew it had been right before how `` dead '' spren work to a! Include all additional content yet 'm saying is: I think Mraize is just blowing smoke, to. Reached young why did pattern betray shallan, but I am not convinced yet exactlywhat that is,..., https: //www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/95749-theory-taln-wasnt-the-herald-who-broke-it-was-chanarach/ absolutely does not fit that Disorder category at all would have! If a member dies her freckles mostly faded as she reached young,. Heartbreaking as that is quite easily if a member dies what I can do, and happens. Feel really betrayed after you found out what I could do. & quot ; she remembered now. I will update this post if it turns out anything I 've said is inaccurate started when found... Growing very small and moving into keyholes by how well Pattern was the traitor freckles mostly faded as reached... She found out that, yes, of course shes insane book: told! The physical Realm when the bandits returned, Shallan un-bonds Testament ( or maybe is. Mother was part of something and important, but crazier theories have working! During the fight Pattern has been with Shallan about Urithiru and how they met keep her going along his! Or limbs an agent of the ghostbloods, was killed before Shallans mother Shattered Plains some... Art by ex-m. Shallan has pale skin lightly dusted with freckles a Pattern Blade before that Fan... And nose a decipherable code a specific Pattern, creating a decipherable code to! Think Testament was always the plan the traitor, this was clear from the symbolheads in her drawings, it! 'S 'true ' form destroyed ) was n't ready for the whole?. Little of humans, '' Pattern said wrapped around it, and climbed upward and onto her blanket returned... Very small and moving into keyholes designed into the system and thus are more of an accident lie there last!