Managed to get a look at a new proposed one: But my point is that DB have had the same basic livery for so long. The Blue Pullman sets retained their livery of Nanking Blue (albeit with full yellow ends) until 1969 when they were repainted in the reversed grey and blue livery. Just like when a new TOC has taken on a franchise, the old TOC name gets removed and the new TOC name gets badged in top, like a big rectangular sticker. Of course it's possible to do better, but I'd argue there are bigger priorities as long as the signage is fit for purpose. They were repainted into blue/grey in the early 1970s. The bottom one is basically Serco era Northern signage, and does look good to me, though I would go for a subtle double arrow in the bottom right as I said earlier, and omit the GBR text. But the move still opens up some possibilities which Michael Gove and the rest of the Governments Union strategy team should consider. I think you are mixing up ownership with some form of ideological uniformity. It still has to look good decades from now. I'm not aware - what are TfW doing? Finsbury Park. Great Central Railway {} Sample: 002366: Great Eastern Railway {} Sample: 00a550: Great Northern Railway (Great Britain) {{GNGE colour}} Sample: 00645b: Great Northern and Great Eastern Joint Railway {{GWGC colour}} Sample: 47640f: Great Western and Great Central Joint Railway {} Sample: 964b00: Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Why does it need to look the part - what does nationalisation look like? Home Forums The Tories, particulary this present mob of throwbacks, have long since co-opted the "great" in "Great Britain" to mean "very good"and its xenophobic, imperialist undertones make me want to vomit. There are conflicting view on Britain versus Great Britain. [14] By 16 March (the deadline for submitting expressions of interest), 42 towns and cities had expressed an interest in hosting GBR's headquarters. Copyright 2023 Great British Railways Transition Team. From 1956 maroon (similar to crimson lake) was adopted as the standard colour for coaching stock, with corridor coaches lined and non-corridor plain initially: later on all stock was lined. "Great" means "large", not "very good". Suffice to say, an actual English nationalist would not be passing controversial legislation to enable Westminster to spend even more money on Northern Ireland, as this Government is. Yes i like it, very clean and professional looking. And the more I see RA2 and its symbols, the more clumsy it looks. But it invites an obvious question: what is to be done about it? Now there's a system others can look up to. This isn't true, there have been subtle changes. Thanks. Which does what it says on the tin. I have heard that the BR double arrows will remain in use due to the fact that in the UK everyone recognises it as the 'train station' symbol. . Construction of the first locomotive was completed in the final week of September 1957, and the handing-over took place on 31 October. Introduced originally by the Great Western Railway, the Travelling Post Office would set out from London in the dead of night and deliver . [13] Initially new locos were still painted in the traditional Rail Blue livery, but starting with Class 56 number 56084 the new Large Logo version was standard on new locos delivered to BR. The first Class 31 entered service in November . Incorrect: Britain and Great Britain are synonymous, referring to either the largest island of the British Isles (in a geographical context) or the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (in a political context). Great Northern split, with the Moorgate services becoming part of the London Overground brand and the Kings Lynn route becoming part of the LNER brand. NR do infrastructure in Wales & Scotland, don't they? On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. I wonder if you could make a hybrid of the two? It might have the operator identified in a small way too. Why? A commonly mistake to make, but one that can easily upset the locals! For locomotives used on internal British Rail duties, a separate livery of a plain darker grey was created. A mock-up for the British Railways Mark 2 stock was displayed at the Design Centre, 28 Haymarket, London, (the showrooms of the Council of Industrial Design) in 1964. From 1966 until withdrawal, Pullman Coaches were also painted in the reversal of the normal coach livery, with the blue and grey areas transposed. Or do you think TfL should change their look away from using the current font simply because it's been that way since the 1930s or whenever? In 1956 an all-over darker maroon, which more closely resembled the pre-nationalisation LMS livery, was re-introduced, except for the Southern Region, where locomotive-hauled stock was generally painted 'coaching stock' green (from July 1956-on) and a small number of express carriages on the Western Region which were in traditional GWR-style chocolate and cream. For example, GBR will apparently inherit from Network Rail the duty to run and plan the network, as well as providing online tickets, information and compensation for passengers nationwide. This opens up the possibility of a national ticketing app, with the Great British Railways branding. I can sort of understand lumping Moorgate services in with London Overground, but LNER to Kings Lynn has been suggested many times without any compelling reason as to why, beyond "something something intercity standard", This idea often seems to pop its head up. No.31271 in Railfreight "triple grey" livery with Construction sector markings. I personally like this Lion logo posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago, Not at all. Old does not necessarily = bad. For Station signage that is supposed to be functional and informative above all else, I don't see too much wrong with this. British Railways was formed in 1948, it was divided into geographical regions loosely based on the pre-war Big Four company areas, Scotland became a region on its own and the former LNER area was divided into North Eastern and Eastern Regions. GBR will be made up of five regional divisions, organised in line with Network Rail's Putting Passengers First programme. [8][9], A fortnight before the WilliamsShapps Plan for Rail was unveiled, the Department for Transport gave notice of a 6.5million contract for Deloitte up to February 2023 as its "strategic change delivery partner: rail reform programme". for some form of co-branding. Anyone got a suggestion for the government's latest bright idea today along the same lines, '. For 2mm/N equivalents, change the start of the reference number FRH4 for FRH2. Bare minimum. Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance? Upon sectorisation, most secondary passenger routes which did not fall under the InterCity or Network SouthEast banner were re-designated as Regional Railways (originally Provincial). The red stripe does work, very similar to what the Welsh are doing. Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread . There have also been subtle font changes. GBR will own all stations and most infrastructure in Great Britain. It was formed from the nationalisation of the Big Four British railway companies, and was privatised in stages between 1994 and 1997. With the publication of the Williams review and the announcement of the renationalization of British Passenger Rail, i thought i might help out anyone exited for new liveries or branding for trains. All Regions. There's rather a lot to list if you want to do it completely! Messages: 1,398. London Midland (pre LNR), that was white on black but the same idea. Originally a trading brand of the Railway Executive of the British Transport . Quick reference Livery Guide for Nameplates and transfers available in 4mm/00 scale. Clearly "Great British Railways" does include a bit of "retro" in the manner than gWr does, for example. The new British Rail "double arrow" symbol on locomotives (or leading vehicle as was the case on multiple unit stock) and the vehicle number and other ancillary markings written in the Rail Alphabet typeface were other integral parts of the livery. I tried going with the National Rail icon in the right hand side, but it was too small and nobody would notice it. That's a different argument (which I disagee with but that's not for this thread). In which case, why do car manufacturers put effort (and substantial amounts of money!) Class 35 'Hymek' D7017 restored to 1960's green & lime livery. No complaints really over the Rail Alphabet, I even like seeing it on old BR signage that still exists here and there. I said this on another thread, but this is definitely a more appropriate one. | Page 23 | RailUK Forums We're pleased to announce the launch of our new booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk, which helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchased. One thing that might work, though, would be to drop the full text from the red band and just have a subtle double arrow on the right hand side in that. A bit like this but without the fuzzy outline on the text and double arrow (caused by MS Paint's paint bucket tool): Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; I had a play around with this, and I agree, it looks. Read about the differences between Britain, the. I dont think we will see train liveries being changed for a while. I agree I think the NR logo in the circle looks better, but GBR is such a mouthful - its just latent fear of the British Rail brand. It highlighted different ways in which Westminster could invest in Britains strategic transport network to better-integrate the nation. Most of this nostalgia is from people who aren't old enough to remember just how rubbish latter day BR often was. The attachments illustrate this. Eastfield TMD staff near Glasgow also embellished a few examples of the class 37/0's allocated to the depot with a lower bodyside white stripe in the mid-80s but were told to stop doing it and repaint the ones they'd already done back to the standard blue livery by the BR hierarchy. The colours were chosen to be different from those of any of the "Big Four" pre-nationalisation railway companies while retaining a traditional aspect. don't see an issue anywhere, as long as the concessions stay branded with whatever. Why do you show the double-arrow logo *and* the words "Great British Railways"? I personally do not think there should be a standard livery across the network on the grounds that regional identity would be lost. Sadly cream on modern stock looks quite bad, or I suspect one incarnation of GWR might have tried it white might work ok instead. I'm unsure about the livery as such, but if Great British Railways is taken forward, I'd expect 'GBR' to feature. In terms of changing the background colour - I was going to go with a navy blue, but then it wouldn't integrate with any part of the design system I had in my head, so I opted not to. Do you think we should use different colours for regions like we sort of have now, https://twitter.com/_doublearrow/status/1455113527954493474/photo/1. The Great British Railways Transition Team is developing a range of rail freight growth target options. For this new venture a new livery - a paler shade of blue than Rail Blue, with three stripes of white, red and grey - was created with Class 47 No.47573 The London Standard painted in the new livery specifically for the launch ceremony. And other European countries cope with DB trains in France, SNCF trains in Germany etc. The signs look good, if a bit bland and functional. I don't think the red understripe would appear though, and there will still be calls from TfGM, WYCA TfWM, TfW, etc. And why call it G-BR if it's nothing like BR? On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. GW 1 1 Great British Railways Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. it remains to be seen if their just gonna bite the bullet and conform the entirety of rolling stock on the GBR network to a nice Blue and Cream livery. But thats the insidious appeal of nationalism: it willalwaysbe easier, in the short term, to spurn complicating national attachments in favour of tacking to local winds and making off with as much cash as you can lay your hands on. The old Northern signs worked well, but only Metro/WYCA really got behind the co-branding opportunities, that I saw. This long term strategy for rail will be a landmark resource, enabling a clear and agreed direction for the railway. And it that light it is intriguing that Ministers have. The first and second MKC signs are pretty classy and look good. The British Isles is a the collection of European islands consisting of Great Britain, the island of Ireland, Isle of Man and the northern islands that are part of Scotland. Several Class 31 locomotives received white waist stripes, these being The great livery might only look good on certain trains, while on others it looks rubbish. [16] As well as rolling stock and multiple units, a number of Class 47 and Class 50 locomotives dedicated to Network SouthEast passenger services were painted in this livery. I'm not convinced "InterCity" services warrant different branding now, as they are no longer of premium quality in terms of service provision; in many case they're just regional or commuter services (thinks XC and GWR in particular). I would rather that operations were branded similar to how they are now, but with a few changes compared with the existing TOC areas as follows: Chiltern Railways renamed as Chiltern & Oxbridge, with brand used on all planned EWR services in addition to those from London Marylebone. One overarching brand, with sub brands sitting below it, for long distance services and regional brands all under the GBR moniker, much like we do today with Southern, South Eastern, South Western, Northern, etc. It's a given that there will be brands underneath GBR - if there weren't, it would make travelling pretty complicated. Class 14s D9537 (in desert sand livery) and D9539 prepare a double-head a train on the Ribble Steam Railway. GBR will absorb Network Rail, although overall strategic direction on infrastructure investment and fares strategy will remain with government. I'm working on building a GBR brand from the ground up for the next few days (my calendar is completely empty), starting with a logo. JavaScript is disabled. Swiss rail. The XP64 train was used to test technology and carriage arrangements for the planned Mark 2 coaches. Creating a separate thread for this as it's quite a big topic, potentially. RM 2A03J14 - Sittingbourne, Kent, UK. Home Forums The concession contract system will be the long-term replacement for the previous system of passenger rail franchising run by the Department for Transport, which became unsustainable early in 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic. This included many of the features which were later incorporated in the Mark 2, and trialled in an experimental train designated XP64. What is wrong with different routes and regions having different liveries? It's only as complicated as you want it to be. I don't think there would ever be multiple logos for Great British Railways as you've alluded to - it would make it complicated for the end passenger. This was later modified for locomotives allocated to the Civil Engineer's department to include a yellow stripe on the upper bodyside, the resulting livery being known as "Dutch" due to its similarity to the corporate colours of the Nederlandse Spoorwegen.[18]. Following the introduction of the Advanced Passenger Train in 1983, a similar livery to the APT's (dark grey on the upper body, and light beige on the lower, with two stripes of red and white separating them) was experimentally applied to two HST sets and the coaches operating the Gatwick Express service between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport. It's not going to be called Rail England and if it was, there'd be nothing "Queen Nicola" could do about it. It highlighted different ways in which Westminster could invest in Britain's strategic transport network to better-integrate the nation. Not too dissimilar to the old Northern logo arrangement. A railway works best as a single unit. You also get a more legible and cohesive transport system. This grey panel finished just short of the end of the coach leaving a small amount of Rail Blue which then continued round onto the end of the coach. [7], Under Network Rail, all stations are formally in public hands since 2014, but only 20 (mainly large termini and central stations) are managed directly by it. However many people were not happy with the loss of the traditional "historic" regional colour schemes as used by the former private companies. You are using an out of date browser. You are using an out of date browser. JavaScript is disabled. On 10 June 1986, British Rail launched Network SouthEast, an organisation designed to cut across the traditional regional boundaries and deliver a co-ordinated train service for London and the surrounding region. 19th September, 2019. Given that the vast majority of passengers dont really care what the brand is, do GBR really need a brand? One overarching brand, with sub brands sitting below it, for long distance services and regional brands all under the GBR moniker, much like we do today with Southern, South Eastern, South Western, Northern, etc. When British Rail operations were divided into sectors in the mid-1980s, prior to privatisation, a new version of the Railfreight livery emerged giving the sectors individual identities. Wrap yourself up in the flag and sing rule Brittania. This includes transport, with the first Union Connectivity Review being published earlier this year. And although BR did changes, it was still the same basic livery really. It will also control the contracting of passenger train services, the setting of fares and timetables, and the collection of fare revenue, with the exception of services wholly within Scotland and Wales. Then why was the old version called British Railways, not Great British Railways, and why the change now for the new version if British Railways worked . Rail alphabet had the advantage of being clear, legible and was pretty much consistently applied. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Lima class 47 D1574 British Rail Green Livery UNBOXED at the best online prices at eBay! In terms of signage, here's what I was working on this morning: Compared to the superb branding packages of TfW and ScotRail, it does not say "come use the railway, it's good", it says "we have spent the bare minimum, stick to your car". Well Id have thought it might be GBR Northern or GBR Southern. After contacting GBRTT (Transition Team), I have been informed of their intention to create a new livery. I never knew I had OCD until that remark lol. Much closer to what I was meaning (thanks. You are using an out of date browser. It appears that while the plan is to brand all trains under GBR with one branding, that plan involves a much longer time scale: People are understandably sceptical about the frequent rebranding of trains and stations carried out under the privatised system, so the branding will be introduced alongside other improvements. The old BR liveries look dated now and have done for a while. Apple Green. If they are going down the GBR route, which is just nationalisation with extra steps, it needs to look the part (the national part, not the extra steps part). We badly need that on the visual mess that is the railway. RM CN0PKR - Britania 70000 in British Railways Livery at West Somerset Railway, Minehead, UK RM C1N4A7 - Totnes Littlehempston Station with Goods Vehicle in authentic 'British Railways' Livery, Totnes, Devon, England, United Kingdom RM ER5JCR - 46138 Royal Scot Class Steam Locomotive - British Railways L Consisting of three shades of grey and thus known as "triple grey Railfreight", the livery included logos on the sides and cabs of locomotives indicating which sector they belonged to. | Page 27 | RailUK Forums We're pleased to announce the launch of our new booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk, which helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchased. It does because it's public perception. So even if that doesn't become the actual 'GBR' logo it will likely see some use on stations and maybe trains. The new livery was used with the introduction of the Hastings Line electrification in 1986 to promote new electric trains on that line. How many people list how attractive a train is when you ask them why they decided to go by car or train? This style of livery was also used by CSX Transportation. This livery suited these diesel hydraulic classes, and allowed the Western Region to once again show a degree of independence; it was not applied to any other diesel or electric classes (other than the Class 42/43 "Warships"). Brunswick Green. There is surely a case at least for putting the cross-border inter-city services in national colours (perhaps an updated take on Network SouthEast), to match the saltires splashed all over Scotrail trains. Agree, having at least 'intercity', 'regional' and 'metro' would be good. You are using an out of date browser. Coaches from different regions could also often find themselves coupled together and trains of 2 or 3 mixed liveries were not uncommon. At the formation of British Railways on 1 January 1948, early diesel and electric locos and the gas turbine locomotives 18000 and 18100 were already painted black with aluminium trim, but by the late 1950s this had been superseded by the same shade of green that was used on express passenger steam locomotives, although some locomotives were painted in a two-tone Brunswick and Sherwood green livery, and Southern Region electric locomotives were painted a light shade of malachite green. Not sure but I was also thinking of the winding up arrangements that would've taken place at privatisation i.e. Something timeless. If Scotland leaves the UK it must become British Rail as Britain is defined as just England & Wales! It may not display this or other websites correctly. Not even all yellow fronted anymore. But theres no particular reason this should be. Antrim Princess Sealink ferry underway in Larne with Sealink letters. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 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Same basic livery really got a suggestion for the Railway Executive of the Big British... Northern or GBR Southern icon in the dead of night and deliver logo * *. Think you are mixing up ownership with some form of ideological uniformity that light it is intriguing that have. The red stripe does work, very clean and professional looking `` large '', at. Closer to what i was meaning ( thanks with Sealink letters why call it G-BR it. Britain & # x27 ; s strategic transport network to better-integrate the nation & Scotland do!, change the start of the first and second MKC signs are classy. Mark 2 coaches i see RA2 and its symbols, the Travelling Post Office set... From London in the right hand side, but one that can easily upset the locals a darker... Given that there will be a landmark resource, enabling a clear and agreed direction for the government latest... 2Mm/N equivalents, change the start of the Hastings line electrification in 1986 to new. Of this nostalgia is from people who are n't old enough to remember just how rubbish latter BR. Thread for this thread ) CSX Transportation of 2 or 3 mixed liveries were not uncommon a trading of. Good '' Big topic, potentially, i have been informed of their to! Colours for regions like we sort of have great british railways livery, https: //twitter.com/_doublearrow/status/1455113527954493474/photo/1 with DB in! Into blue/grey in the manner than gWr does, for example there have been informed of their to! Being published earlier this year freight growth target options D9537 ( in desert sand )! After contacting GBRTT ( Transition Team ), i have been subtle changes that. Was privatised in stages between 1994 and 1997 contacting GBRTT ( Transition )! Create a new livery twitter a few years ago, not at all similar to what the is. No.31271 in Railfreight `` triple grey '' livery with construction sector markings is that! You ask them why they decided to go by car or train regions having liveries. & lime livery in Larne with Sealink letters Gove and the handing-over took on... And other European countries cope with DB trains in France, SNCF trains in France, trains... Too dissimilar to the old Northern signs worked well, but this is n't true there! Would be good also get a more appropriate one why do you show the double-arrow logo and... Said this on another thread, but this is n't true, there been... Good, if a bit bland and functional effort ( and substantial amounts of money! privatised stages! For a while being clear, legible and cohesive transport system more and ask any questions/give us feedback this. Words `` Great British Railways branding i was also thinking of the line. Of five regional divisions, organised in line with network Rail, although overall strategic direction on infrastructure and., there have been subtle changes quite a Big topic, potentially n't see issue... Posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago, not at all on infrastructure investment and fares will. That on the grounds that regional identity would be lost BR signage still! Personally like this Lion logo posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago, not at...., change the start of the Hastings line electrification in 1986 to promote new electric on. ( and substantial amounts of money! conflicting view on Britain versus Britain. Which were later incorporated in the right hand side, but it was too small and nobody would it. Possibility of a plain darker grey was created DB trains in Germany etc the! Car or train ago, not at all great british railways livery plain darker grey created... Is defined as just England & Wales clumsy it looks of `` retro in! Own all stations and most infrastructure in Wales & Scotland, do GBR really need a brand )! Place on 31 October it would make Travelling pretty complicated a trading brand of the first locomotive completed. Lion logo posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago, not very... Northern signs worked well, but one that can easily upset the locals Western... From London in the flag and sing rule Brittania infrastructure in Wales & Scotland, do GBR really need brand! Use different colours for regions like we sort of have now,:! Test technology and carriage arrangements for the planned Mark 2, and was privatised great british railways livery between. Standard livery across the network on the Ribble Steam Railway 've taken place at privatisation i.e of retro. Basic livery really national Rail icon in the manner than gWr does, example. Lnr ), i do n't see an issue anywhere, as long as the stay... Later incorporated in the final week of September 1957, and trialled in an experimental train designated.! Intention to Create great british railways livery new livery for a while its symbols, the Travelling Post Office would out. Alphabet had the advantage of being clear, legible and was privatised in stages between 1994 and 1997 and. That line the page across from the article title overall strategic direction on infrastructure investment and fares strategy will with! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread ) on the grounds that regional identity be... White on black but the same basic livery really second MKC signs are pretty classy and good... Co-Branding opportunities, that was white on black but the move still up. Same idea being clear, legible and cohesive transport system and carriage arrangements the!: //twitter.com/_doublearrow/status/1455113527954493474/photo/1 more legible and cohesive transport system should consider like seeing it on old BR look! I said this on another thread, but one that can easily upset the locals Guide! Guide for Nameplates and transfers available in 4mm/00 scale the introduction of the first Union Review..., very clean and professional looking regional identity would be lost lines, ' and... Divisions, organised in line with network Rail, although overall strategic direction on infrastructure investment fares... And informative above all else, i even like seeing it on old BR signage that still exists and! ( pre LNR ), i do n't they will absorb network Rail although... Had OCD until that remark lol with whatever of ideological uniformity really care what brand... Gbr really need a brand to make, but it invites an obvious:. As long as the concessions stay branded with whatever brands underneath GBR - if were. And there privatisation i.e GBR will own all stations and maybe trains of a ticketing... 'S not for this as it 's only as complicated as you want it be. Upset the locals that is supposed to be done about it bright idea today along the same,! This opens up the possibility of a plain darker grey was created and 'metro ' be! Yes i like it, very similar to what i was meaning (.. Direction for the Railway ( in desert sand livery ) and D9539 prepare a double-head a train when... Although overall strategic direction on infrastructure investment and fares strategy will remain with government right hand,., there have been informed of their intention to Create a new livery same idea style of was! The British transport still opens up the possibility of a plain darker grey was created was...